How closely should a rebooted Swat Kats follow the original story?

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Re: How closely should a rebooted Swat Kats follow the original story?

Postby AkaneKitty » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:03 pm

Feral does not need a reason to hate the SWAT Kats. They're vigilantes. They break the law. He hates law breakers. In addition to all the property damage, they antagonize him constantly. Why wouldn't he hate them for that? The Commissioner Gordan comparison doesn't apply because of this. The SWAT Kats haven't given Feral any reason to like them. If the SWAT Kats weren't so jerkish, maybe they coud get along better.

As for what I'd like to see, I'd like to see more of the Enforcer ranks, with more named officers. I'd like to see Feral get some victories as well, as well as getting his version of when Jake and Chance got kicked out. I'd want to see the SWAT Kats lose some support. They're vigilantes and they shouldn't have every government official sans Feral in there pocket. I'd like to see them operate without support.
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Re: How closely should a rebooted Swat Kats follow the original story?

Postby Mikazo » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:06 pm

We could easily talk at length about new things the show could add, or ways they could develop existing characters. For the purposes of this thread though I was mainly interested to know whether the new show should do anything differently from the original, i.e. rewrite certain parts or retcon anything. Kooshmeister suggesting not killing off Dr. Zyme is an example. :)
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Re: How closely should a rebooted Swat Kats follow the original story?

Postby Kooshmeister » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:31 pm

Ocelot wrote:You don’t have to get defensive about it.


I just got the vibe from you that because you didn't find him interesting, he didn't need to be included. In fact, you flat out said "let's move on," pretty clearly saying nothing further should be done with him.

Ocelot wrote:The fact that he is Feral second in command guarantees he doesn’t do field work. He’s basically the VP. If something happens to Feral its his responsibility to Lead the Enforcers. Similar to Steele in the early seasons.


Steel is the second-in-command/VP, being lieutenant commander, while Talon is just a sergeant. Talon is really only ever Feral's second when in the field (such as in Destructive Nature), and he's also shown doing detective work (in The Origin of Dr. Viper where he's tasked with finding Purvis' body).

Ocelot wrote:Steele


Steel.

Image

Ocelot wrote:Putting her with a rookie makes her a babysitter


Or, y'know, doing her job as an experienced Enforcer showing a newcomer the ropes. Something she was doing in the plot outline of The Doctors of Doom, mind you. Considering what a good Enforcer she's said to be, why wouldn't her uncle put new guys with her for their first mission(s) so they can learn from her?

Plus, having her serve as a mentor to another character might be interesting.

Ocelot wrote:Grey.


Gray.

Ocelot wrote:Again who said we are treading the toes of any characters. We aren’t replacing anybody? Just adding some. Plenty of time for the characters. Avatar the last Air bender had a bunch of characters and still found time for each of them.


Characters who'd be performing tasks that existing characters can easily do themselves.

Ocelot wrote:You want to give more time to characters that were killed off or deleted after a few episodes. And they aren’t even popular. Yet adding a few new characters to strengthen the show is taking up space? Come on a little fairness here.


I'm not against adding new characters. I'd just prefer giving a fair shake to characters who never got one first, is all.

Ocelot wrote:I also disagree with you on Manx. Manx is a Mayor but he also has benefactors.


While I agree (and have in fact added a governor in some of my fan writings), show me evidence in the show where Manx answers to someone. There's nothing wrong with the "Steel comes from a wealthy family" fan theory, but that's all it is.

Ocelot wrote:So we can jump to the conclusion that Steele has a rich famiky who supported Mayor Manx in his elections. And in turn ask Manx a favor to get their friend or son a high ranking job with the Enforcers.


Can we...? It's a big leap based on nothing.

Anyway, Steel being a jerk who gets by because of his connections just isn't as interesting to me as him being a jerk who nevertheless has something worthwhile to bring to the Enforcers.
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Re: How closely should a rebooted Swat Kats follow the original story?

Postby Ocelot » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:12 pm

NightSlayer2 wrote:There are some factors I look forward to seeing into the new show.

1) They said there would be an Oracle type person to help with SWAT Kats with technology and fieldwork. That would be so cool. That would be like what Felicity Smoak does in Arrow. My friend on the Batman fanon website, Bat24, made up a Felicity Smoak like character named Kristina once. I bet this Felicity Smoak like character might have a romance going on with Jake.

2) I'd like to see more about Feral and the Enforcers. I wish to see Feral's perspective of what happened the day he fired Chance and Jake from the Enforcers. Perhaps Feral has a vendetta against Dark Kat. I also would like to see some corrupt enforcers and maybe Steele. In my fanfic world, there is corruption in the Enforcers. I also would like to see Feral's family and why he hates vigilantes so much. Perhaps the recklessness of a vigilante cost Feral the life of someone he cared about the most. I also like to see why Callie dislikes him so much. In my fanfic world, Callie was Feral's foster daughter and they had a good relationship. However, Callie soon started to dislike Feral when Feral kept her mother being alive a secret from her.

3) An episode on Manx running against someone for mayor who is against the Manx Administration and wants the SWAT Kats to be outlawed. I also like to see how Callie got the communicator from the SWAT Kats and how she became the deputy mayor.

4) I like to see other law enforcement agencies other than the Enforcers and for there to be a world outside of MegaKat City. I like to see agencies appear such as the FBI, the CIA, or the NSA or something like that. I like to see if there are other cities that exist as well.

5) I like to see the SWAT Kats tackle new villains and deal with mobsters.

6) I like to see everyone's family like Chance's parents, flashbacks to Chance's time in that old neighborhood, and Jake's family. ANd other people's families like from Manx, Callie, and Feral.

7) Feral and the SWAT Kats become allies like Captain Lance and Team Arrow. Feral could do this because of the corruption of the Enforcers (if they decide to make it that way) or if there is something that the law cannot handle. I'd also like to see flashbacks to Feral starting out as a young enforcer and with an older veteran similar to Gordon and Bullock from Gotham.

8) Some other vigilantes to appear.


I think all your ideas sound great SKFistIcon
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Re: How closely should a rebooted Swat Kats follow the original story?

Postby Ocelot » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:54 pm

Kooshmeister wrote:I just got the vibe from you that because you didn't find him interesting, he didn't need to be included. In fact, you flat out said "let's move on," pretty clearly saying nothing further should be done with him.
And whats wrong with that? Am I obligated to think like you do and give him a bigger role in my imagination just becuase you like him. Guess what people like different things. Its a shocking concept I know lol.


Kooshmeister wrote:Steel is the second-in-command/VP, being lieutenant commander, while Talon is just a sergeant. Talon is really only ever Feral's second when in the field (such as in Destructive Nature), and he's also shown doing detective work (in The Origin of Dr. Viper where he's tasked with finding Purvis' body
STEELE disappeared after Enter Madkat. So the sergeant became the de facto second in command. Did I say detective work. I said field work. Similar to beat cops who patrol the city by themselves everyday.

Kooshmeister wrote:Or, y'know, doing her job as an experienced Enforcer showing a newcomer the ropes. Something she was doing in the plot outline of The Doctors of Doom, mind you. Considering what a good Enforcer she's said to be, why wouldn't her uncle put new guys with her for their first mission(s) so they can learn from her?

Plus, having her serve as a mentor to another character might be interesting.
I just don’t see how that makes her interesting. Like I said in the quote you deleted. She is already a far and away interesting the way she is. Why change that? Plus She is already unofficially partnered with the Swat Kats and her Uncle. Also like I said it fits her personality. GRAY would handcuff her in my opinion.


Kooshmeister wrote:Characters who'd be performing tasks that existing characters can easily do themselves.
Then whats the point of changing the show if its the same characters. Adding more Enforcers in my opinion will change them from standard redshirts and make them more interesting.

Kooshmeister wrote:I'm not against adding new characters. I'd just prefer giving a fair shake to characters who never got one first, is all.
In my opinion I tought they got a pretty fair shake especially Zyme. You are obviously big fans of both characters. I ‘m not so just agree to disagree.

Kooshmeister wrote:While I agree (and have in fact added a governor in some of my fan writings), show me evidence in the show where Manx answers to someone. There's nothing wrong with the "Steel comes from a wealthy family" fan theory, but that's all it is.
Of course its a theory. I’m just basting it on what happens in real life. Mayors have people they answer too also. If the show ever gets picked up again. I want the writing to mirror real life. Thats all.


Kooshmeister wrote:Can we...? It's a big leap based on nothing.
So is your theory that STEELE must have done something to get Feral to promote him. Which doesn’t make much sense and again makes Feral an idiot considering how STEELE behaves in the series.

Kooshmeister wrote:Anyway, Steel being a jerk who gets by because of his connections just isn't as interesting to me as him being a jerk who nevertheless has something worthwhile to bring to the Enforcers.
I disagree. To me it opens up possibilities in the story. It shows the corruption in not the just the Enforcers but the political system in Megakatcity.
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Re: How closely should a rebooted Swat Kats follow the original story?

Postby Kooshmeister » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:14 pm

Ocelot wrote:And whats wrong with that? Am I obligated to think like you do and give him a bigger role in my imagination just becuase you like him. Guess what people like different things. Its a shocking concept I know lol.


Don't be a smartass. You're not olbigated to like Zyme and you not liking him/not finding him interesting isn't the issue. It's the fact your only reason for why he shouldn't reappear is the fact you personally don't like him. That's a weak reason for him not to reappear and you know it.

Ocelot wrote:STEELE disappeared after Enter Madkat. So the sergeant became the de facto second in command. Did I say detective work. I said field work. Similar to beat cops who patrol the city by themselves everyday.


Just because he hasn't been seen anymore doesn't mean he isn't there. After all, there's nothing in canon saying he was fired. He didn't do anything in Enter the Madkat worthy of being fired, after all.

Also:

Ocelot wrote:STEELE


Smartass.

Ocelot wrote:She is already a far and away interesting the way she is. Why change that? Plus She is already unofficially partnered with the Swat Kats and her Uncle. Also like I said it fits her personality. GRAY would handcuff her in my opinion.


She can do all that and still have a character who pals around with her.

Ocelot wrote:Then whats the point of changing the show if its the same characters.


More characters can be added. But they don't need to do things existing ones already can.

Ocelot wrote:In my opinion I tought they got a pretty fair shake especially Zyme.


No he didn't. His only role so far has been in Viper's origins and failing miserably to kill the bacteria monsters. He deserves more than that, I think. Another reason to use him again is that without him, Megakat Biochemical Labs has no more scientists left.

Ocelot wrote:So is your theory that STEELE must have done something to get Feral to promote him. Which doesn’t make much sense and again makes Feral an idiot considering how STEELE behaves in the series.


No it doesn't. Feral can find some use for Steel without being an idiot. His comments about him in The Wrath of Dark Kat make it plain that he is aware of his ambitious side and is keeping an eye on him.

Ocelot wrote:To me it opens up possibilities in the story. It shows the corruption in not the just the Enforcers but the political system in Megakatcity.


I think it's lazy. It's going the most obvious route possible and reduces Steel to being nothing but a jerk with the emotional depth of a shallow puddle. The very thing I wanted to avoid when I suggested he needed character development.

Steel just continuing to be a jerk is the easy route. Actually thinking up some kind of redemptive qualities or at least hidden depths to him requires creativity. That's why actual character development for him interests me far more than him just remaining a one-note jerk.
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Re: How closely should a rebooted Swat Kats follow the original story?

Postby Kooshmeister » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:29 pm

Mikazo wrote:Kooshmeister suggesting not killing off Dr. Zyme is an example. :)


Thank you. At least someone else agrees with me. ZymeIcon
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Re: How closely should a rebooted Swat Kats follow the original story?

Postby Kooshmeister » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:35 pm

NightSlayer2 wrote:I bet this Felicity Smoak like character might have a romance going on with Jake.


People complained about the Jake/Callie shipping in Succubus!, but now suddenly him hooking up with the hacker chick is A-OK? TboneLaughCait

NightSlayer2 wrote:2) I'd like to see more about Feral and the Enforcers. I wish to see Feral's perspective of what happened the day he fired Chance and Jake from the Enforcers. Perhaps Feral has a vendetta against Dark Kat.


That would be interesting, as I would like to know why Feral, a man for whom personal glory apparently means nothing, insisted he and he alone had to take out Dark Kat.

NightSlayer2 wrote:I also would like to see some corrupt enforcers and maybe Steele. In my fanfic world, there is corruption in the Enforcers.


Provided, of course, there was an Enforcer I.A.B. to balance things out.

NightSlayer2 wrote:3) An episode on Manx running against someone for mayor who is against the Manx Administration and wants the SWAT Kats to be outlawed.


They're already outlawed. They're vigilantes. Manx can't (and never really has) officially publicly endorsed them.

CalSmile "Are you really going to have a SWAT Kat Day?"
ManxSmile "Don't be ridiculous! How it would it look if I threw a parade for a couple of vigilantes?"

As for his opponent in an election, Steel would make a good candidate; either he quits or gets fired and so looks towards politics as a career. He could run on a platform of "Hey, at least I'm smarter than Manx." SteeleSweatDropIcon
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Re: How closely should a rebooted Swat Kats follow the original story?

Postby Mikazo » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:03 am

Kooshmeister wrote:
Mikazo wrote:Kooshmeister suggesting not killing off Dr. Zyme is an example. :)


Thank you. At least someone else agrees with me. ZymeIcon


I just used that example because that's the sort of thing I wanted the thread to focus on. If they keep Zyme around, that would be deviating from the original show because he was ostensibly killed off. Personally I don't have an opinion one way or another about whether they should do that, but it's something they could rewrite for sure.

Although with Zyme, what you could do is show that he actually survived, albeit in this completely ridiculous and improbable manner. After all Christian Tremblay said that he only "probably died." Maybe he gets eaten, then when the bacteria is destroyed he ends up falling out of its remains into the river, covered in smoldering goop. Then the current carries him to a water treatment facility where he gets sucked in and exposed to all kinds of hazardous waste, and then he escapes by blindly jumping into the back of a flatbed truck full of cactuses.

Then when he suddenly shows up again in the new show completely unharmed, he breathlessly informs the characters of his ordeal and they all marvel as to how he managed to survive all of this without any lingering effects. And just in time too, because they need his expert help again to kill some other weird mutant creature. :)

In a case like that, that actually wouldn't be a retcon so to speak, because even from a canon point of view there is a sliver of a chance that he survived after all. Correct me if I'm wrong though!
Last edited by Mikazo on Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How closely should a rebooted Swat Kats follow the original story?

Postby Kooshmeister » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:11 am

The thing with him, and why I guess I owe an apology to Ocelot, is I always found his the cruelest of the deaths in the show and it's been a sore spot with me for years. As noted elsewhere, if The Giant Bacteria had been his only appearance, I wouldn't really care, but he got so much character development in The Origin of Dr. Viper that watching that episode is often a little bittersweet for me, knowing that no matter what he does, a grisly demise is in his future.

This is why him surviving (if a sequel) or outright not getting killed at all (if a reboot) has always been high on my want list for a new show. I not only like Zyme, I feel sick at heart for the poor guy, so I can get a little defensive if nobody else quite sees the potential he has, or doesn't at least want to bring him back. So, eh, sorry, Ocelot... we just got into it over a very sensitive issue of mine. I shouldn't have been so rude about it, and if I upset you, I apologize.

But, yeah, a reboot should definitely avoid killing him off.

And, I like your idea, Mikazo; it's similar to (one of) mine where he survives but is left scarred by physical contact from the bacteria monster.
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