LGBT characters in Swat Kats

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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Postby Jacob1290 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:20 am

Kooshmeister wrote:OTP:

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No, this is OTP
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Postby marklungo » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:52 pm

WooldoorSockbat wrote:Mayor Manx - now I know he's worse than Ulysses, but I think the idea that Megakat City has [a] gay mayor, who holds high political power is quite pleasing.


Yeah, until you remember what a blubbering coward he is. Manx would not make a good representative of the gay community.

Anyway, if the gay character has to be someone from the existing cast, I have a few candidates who I think wouldn't be too embarrassing.

* Ann Gora: She's been mentioned already. On the whole, I find her a pretty positive character. She's somewhat reckless, but so are the SWAT Kats; she's not prepared to deal with monsters, but why should she be? (You know, aside from the fact that she lives in Megakat City.) However, I forget whether she and Jonny K ever show any interest in each other.

*Professor Hackle: Yes, he's naive, but he's also brilliant and idealistic. He's never been shipped with anyone (at least in canon). And you don't see a lot of elderly gay characters in the media.

* Dr. Abby Sinian: She would be my first choice. She's smart, courageous, very good at her job, has no known romantic attachments, and has none of the drawbacks of the other two. SinianThisCait
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Postby Swatkatfan21 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:58 am

marklungo wrote:
WooldoorSockbat wrote:* Dr. Abby Sinian: She would be my first choice. She's smart, courageous, very good at her job, has no known romantic attachments, and has none of the drawbacks of the other two. SinianThisCait


The good doctor was first on my mind when I gave this subject some thought. Dr. Sinian has always been one of my favorite characters from the show and second only to Callie for the she-kats. She would be the perfect role model for the LGBT community for the reasons listed above. Plus it could lead to an interesting storyline as everyone's favorite doctor takes her place center stage.

As for Jake and Chance being a couple I would have to say I don't care for the idea. It throws the shows dynamic off. However; introducing a family member of one of our heroes as gay/lesbian would be a great idea instead. Having to come to terms and accepting someone for who they are is a much needed subject in the entertainment world.
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Postby Kooshmeister » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:57 am

marklungo wrote:However, I forget whether she and Jonny K ever show any interest in each other.


Not really. Jonny seems really concerned about her in Caverns of Horror, but you don't need to be in love with someone to be worried about their well-being; it's a little bit of a leap to assume this means he loves her. And, anyway, even if he has feelings for her it doesn't mean she necessarily reciprocates.
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Postby SVMON94 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:34 am

Kooshmeister wrote:
marklungo wrote:However, I forget whether she and Jonny K ever show any interest in each other.


Not really. Jonny seems really concerned about her in Caverns of Horror, but you don't need to be in love with someone to be worried about their well-being; it's a little bit of a leap to assume this means he loves her. And, anyway, even if he has feelings for her it doesn't mean she necessarily reciprocates.


I'm going to have to agree with you here. It's a really bad stereotyping to assume that caring for someone means love. caring for significant people in your life is a fine virtue in general. a solid friendship isn't any less important than a romantic relationship. Think it's really bad when media spreads this mentality where being in a relationship is the only thing that matters in life. Now that i'm done rambling about this,my stance on having lgbt characters is well,sure why not. This has already been said many times but Jake and Chance would be no because you know show dynamic and what not. Maybe something like felina having intrest in callie. with a well written reason why this happened. (Because you know a love intrest happening in a show for no reason isn't exactly good writing) Also i would like to say that romance stuff should not be the main point in an action show. after all it's swat kats we are talking about. I don't have much else to say on the subject,but i hope you all understood what i'm trying to say here.
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Postby EricoBard » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:17 am

Something to keep in mind before you all take to the streets to march for one reason or another:

These characters belong to the Tremblays, Lance Falk, and the other series writers. Any changes or additions are solely their responsibility.

I've done romances before. I've done heterosexual and homosexual in my works, in fact one of the characters in my ongoing Starfox Fanfic IS homosexual...bonus points if anyone can actually identify who they are. I don't make it easy. That being said, the whole reason I advanced 75 years after the Lylat Wars/Starfox 64 was because I wanted a clean break from the existing canon. I wanted to work in that world, but with a mostly blank slate. I didn't want to be confined, or limited, or to have people come back and say, "Dude, you are so off base here! _____ would never say/do/be ______!"

Re-imagining things is part and partial of the Fanfic world, I get that. But there's a limit to it, and one hard no in my book is modifying an existing canon character so drastically that it alters or shifts the original creator's intent and purpose for them. Jake and Chance are bros, buddies in arms. The mayor's a cowardly idiot more concerned with re-election than anything else. Dark Kat just wants to blow it all up so he can rebuild and rule a new city out of the ashes. Lieutenant Feral's a strong woman who's more concerned with getting the job done and saving lives over following regulations.

People can and do change over time, but we need to be careful not to shift them too dramatically, because they're not OUR characters. They were made by someone else, and it's their vision. If they want to change it, fine. It's not our place to say.
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Example: A long, long time ago in another Fandom far far away, I had an autistic teenage hacker savant who was paired up with a young Dr. Light and Dr. Wily in the early days of postwar Reconstruction. He helped to give them a shove in the right direction, and became the first martyr of the new cause. He couldn't communicate directly with anyone or look at them straight in the face, so he communicated via text message. I enjoyed him immensely.

Then I got a review from someone saying that they also enjoyed my little alternatively minded hacker. In fact, they liked him so much that they had created fanart of him as a girl. And a lesbian. And they'd be "Happy to share it...if you wanted..."

To me, my little autistic hacker had no sexual inclinations at all. He operated in a higher sphere of thought, albeit one that was largely unrecognized by the people in the world around him. Boy or girl didn't matter; sex wasn't one of that character's ongoing priorities and thoughts. Naturally, I said nothing, and left that review to drift in the wind. People will always have their own opinions about existing characters. Me, I like to try and get into their heads; Not to CHANGE them, but to UNDERSTAND them.

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When I write for canon characters, I strive to be as accurate to the original vision as possible. It is too jarring a thing if they're so far off the mark that they're unrecognizable. If the Tremblays decide to alter their existing cast in some way, fine. It's their call. If they decide to include new LGBT characters, also fine. Again, it's THEIR story. THEIR vision. But we shouldn't force them to do anything they're not going to do.

Remember how much of a game-changer SWAT Kats was 20 years ago. They had strong female protagonists, especially when Lt. Feral rolled along. There's been talks from them in past panels/interviews talking about adding a new 'female hacker' to the cast to help bring their tech up to spec with modern needs.

Why not just see what they have planned? They may surprise you. This show might just surprise you as well.
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Postby MoDaD » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:06 am

EricoBard wrote:People can and do change over time, but we need to be careful not to shift them too dramatically, because they're not OUR characters. They were made by someone else, and it's their vision. If they want to change it, fine. It's not our place to say.

That's one of those arguments that's been ongoing well beyond our little corner of the internet for quite some time (probably since the beginning of literary history depending on how far back you want to take it :lol: ).

It's also something that authors who write fan fiction seem to love playing in - bouncing back and forth around that line of established character traits and canon elements and injecting their own take on things. Some people are really good at it, bending the rules just enough to create fun scenarios or character interactions that make for an enjoyable read. And, others go too far, to where the story turns into something completely unrecognizable, and makes one wonder, "Just how is this a SWAT Kats story?"

I agree with the spirit of your case for canonicity, but I also think that authors and readers shouldn't feel too obligated to strictly adhere to every established dynamic - particularly in a show like SWAT Kats where a number of those rules haven't really been established, or even remotely touched on depending on the genre of the fan fic in question. HOWEVER, I think this:

  • Jake and Chance are bros, buddies in arms.
  • The mayor's a cowardly idiot more concerned with re-election than anything else.
  • Dark Kat just wants to blow it all up so he can rebuild and rule a new city out of the ashes.
  • Lieutenant Feral's a strong woman who's more concerned with getting the job done and saving lives over following regulations.


Is an excellent bullet point breakdown. I think almost all authors could benefit from looking over something like that (and also your Staying in Character thread, too), as I think you've very quickly and precisely hit the most important areas - something someone can look at and say "Huh, these basic traits aren't being adhered to in what I'm reading, so there better be a reason in the story why."
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Postby marklungo » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:26 am

Erico, I found your post (and MoDaD's reply to it) so interesting that it prompted me to start a new thread, SWAT Kats Fan/Creator Relations. Feel free to check it out and respond as you see fit.
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Postby Jacob1290 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:27 pm

marklungo wrote:
WooldoorSockbat wrote:Mayor Manx - now I know he's worse than Ulysses, but I think the idea that Megakat City has [a] gay mayor, who holds high political power is quite pleasing.


Yeah, until you remember what a blubbering coward he is. Manx would not make a good representative of the gay community.

Anyway, if the gay character has to be someone from the existing cast, I have a few candidates who I think wouldn't be too embarrassing.

* Ann Gora: She's been mentioned already. On the whole, I find her a pretty positive character. She's somewhat reckless, but so are the SWAT Kats; she's not prepared to deal with monsters, but why should she be? (You know, aside from the fact that she lives in Megakat City.) However, I forget whether she and Jonny K ever show any interest in each other.

*Professor Hackle: Yes, he's naive, but he's also brilliant and idealistic. He's never been shipped with anyone (at least in canon). And you don't see a lot of elderly gay characters in the media.

* Dr. Abby Sinian: She would be my first choice. She's smart, courageous, very good at her job, has no known romantic attachments, and has none of the drawbacks of the other two. SinianThisCait



Well, I feel like we can't show every gay person as this amazing person that is very nice and kind. because not all of them are gonna be like that. some of them are actually pretty scummy (ask my ex-boyfriend for proof)
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Postby marklungo » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:22 am

Jacob1290 wrote:Well, I feel like we can't show every gay person as this amazing person that is very nice and kind. because not all of them are gonna be like that. some of them are actually pretty scummy (ask my ex-boyfriend for proof)


I feel for you, Jacob, but think of it this way. If we somehow manage to get gay characters in SWAT Kats: Revolution, I doubt there will be many of them; besides the potential controversy, the original show was never focused on relationships, so why would the new one be? Therefore, the handful of LGBT characters who appear will be seen as representative of their community, fairly or not. So if you have only a few gays to work with (or, more than likely, just one), you risk unfortunate implications if they're primarily negative characters, like the cowardly Manx or the traitorous Steel. They don't have to be perfect; they just need enough virtues to make up for their flaws.
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