What would you like to see in the new series?

Talk about the most awesome show in the world, SWAT Kats: The Radical Squadron.
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Re: What would you like to see in the new series?

Post by Betaruga » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:01 am

There's also his temper. He has a tendency to lash out without thinking, which is why he and Jake are even in the situation they're in.
That's a super good point. Feral's strategy may have been eye-roll inducing when Dark Kat was already tagged by Jake and Chance, but Chance's entitlement and refusal to obey orders was also a mistake. They got the raw deal for it, and are paying the price themselves. On the flip side, without that insubordination and disagreement with Feral's tactics as commander, the city wouldn't have the pair of vigilantes it wound up needing. On a personal note, I like that both sides are right and wrong, even if the SWAT Kats are ultimately more sympathetic.

He also reacts without thinking, like, say, tossing Ann at a monster and into a magma pit? He may have intended to save her, but there's a lot that could have gone wrong with that move. Ballsy, and hilariously appalling, but I hope his patterns blowback in a significant way later on, for good ol' storytelling's sake.
And why he apparently has no idea that TVs can be turned off if you don't like what's playing on them, so you don't need to shatter or paint over their screens. In fact, Chance's behavior in this regard is rather puzzling to me, as, with a few exceptions, most characters I've seen petulantly ruin TV sets have been villains (such as the Joker doing it twice in 1989's Batman). If Chance is to be a positive role model for, well, anyone, he might need to learn to control his temper or at least channel it more positively.
Yeeaaaahhh. Jake's surprisingly lenient about that, too. Chance going to anger management courses has often been a running gag in the back of my mind. I could see him getting in trouble for road rage/street racing and legally required to go, too.

In either case, these two work wonders together as a team, but peppering in more dysfunction and error would help make them more "human" to audiences and challenge the characters, too. Even best friends fight sometimes, and experts make mistakes.
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Re: What would you like to see in the new series?

Post by Kooshmeister » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:28 am

Just in case you posted that while I was editing the post, I added a lot of stuff about possible yearning for approval to it. Basically some pop psychology stuff about how despite what he says to the contrary (and his obvious anti-authoritarian outlook), Chance cares a lot about what Feral says about him and wants the Commander's approval. If for no other reason than to hear him say he was wrong to have fired them.

So, yeah, I'd like to see Chance's apparent anger problem and the reason for it addressed and developed.
In either case, these two work wonders together as a team, but peppering in more dysfunction and error would help make them more "human" to audiences and challenge the characters, too.
Which would be fine if it'd ever been addressed in the show itself and used as fodder for character development, but, like I said, it pretty much passed without comment. :lol:
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Re: What would you like to see in the new series?

Post by Mikazo » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:51 pm

Interesting point about Jake being afraid of hurting others. Perhaps he could overcome his fears, to the point where he starts pushing old ladies down the stairs in pursuit of his enemies.

"Hey, this isn't so bad after all!"
"Congratulations, Razor! You're cured!"

Speaking of said issues, could you imagine the show stylized like a Martin Scorsese gangster film? Imagine the show depicting their expulsion from (and concurrent rejection of) the Enforcers, and becoming very well-respected vigilantes, which enables them to live in notoriety and extravagance until they eventually self-destruct. XD

Then again, maybe not.

Though I do wonder what kinds of conflicts the juxtaposition of their personalities would create between them. Think (hypothetically) Jake would get tired of Chance's recklessness or impulsiveness, or that Chance would get tired of Jake being too meticulous, overly attentive to detail, etc.?

The hardest part about this show, in my opinion, is making the two likeable, in spite of the fact that they are vigilantes. How much can you really sympathize with a vigilante? Are they always a force for good? That's a pretty big philosophical question underlying the show.
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Re: What would you like to see in the new series?

Post by marklungo » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:58 pm

Mikazo wrote:The hardest part about this show, in my opinion, is making the two likeable, in spite of the fact that they are vigilantes. How much can you really sympathize with a vigilante? Are they always a force for good? That's a pretty big philosophical question underlying the show.
Or not underlying the show, unfortunately. I love SWAT Kats as much as anyone, but I've never been comfortable with its implication that vigilantism is not only cool, but the ideal response to bad policing. Just because Feral is wrong doesn't automatically make the SWAT Kats right. This is something the new series should address.

Finally, this has been such a cool thread! All the suggestions made so far have been good ones. I hope the Tremblays are listening...
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Re: What would you like to see in the new series?

Post by Betaruga » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:13 pm

Mikazo wrote:The hardest part about this show, in my opinion, is making the two likeable, in spite of the fact that they are vigilantes. How much can you really sympathize with a vigilante? Are they always a force for good? That's a pretty big philosophical question underlying the show.
I dunno, I never had a hard time sympathizing with them. Have you ever been frustrated with the status quo and wish you could fix issues nobody else can seem to handle? The SWAT Kats strike a cord in audience members who often entertain their own desires to "take matters into their own hands" when in real life, they're helpless to do anything, with vigilante fantasy as an outlet. Also, you may notice that vigilante series are... pretty popular. And a vigilante series only works when the system itself is too inept to handle threats. In this case, just because what the SWAT Kats are doing is illegal, doesn't mean that what they're doing isn't right. Law doesn't equal morality, sad to say.
marklungo wrote:Or not underlying the show, unfortunately. I love SWAT Kats as much as anyone, but I've never been comfortable with its implication that vigilantism is not only cool, but the ideal response to bad policing. Just because Feral is wrong doesn't automatically make the SWAT Kats right. This is something the new series should address.


Yes, ultimately the best policy for bad policing is to make changes to the police force. And it would be cool to see that focus emphasized more in the series. Feral doesn't do it himself though, despite his efforts, and sometimes the law isn't enough. If the SWAT Kats were given legal status to be a personalized strike force that could work in tandem with the Enforcers? That would be cool, but you gotta wonder sometimes, since the SWAT Kats have saved the city from its own poor governance, and if they had to abide by red tape, the city would have been destroyed many times over. Case in point: Manx refusing to let Feral damage that skyscraper to defeat Dr. Viper's plot to not only destroy that building but the entire city. Can't see the forest for the trees much?

Feral also doesn't always accept that sometimes the total destruction of a city does outweigh the cost of millions of dollars to repair damaged buildings-- or even if he does, he's not in a position to admit that publicly. In the SWAT Kats world, it's hard to justify putting the SWAT Kats down because while what they're doing is illegal, it's proven effective and fills a need. They cut through the red tape.
Finally, this has been such a cool thread! All the suggestions made so far have been good ones. I hope the Tremblays are listening...
I doubt they go on this site. If you have ideas, why not message them on the kickstarter? :)
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Re: What would you like to see in the new series?

Post by AkaneKitty » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:06 am

marklungo wrote: Or not underlying the show, unfortunately. I love SWAT Kats as much as anyone, but I've never been comfortable with its implication that vigilantism is not only cool, but the ideal response to bad policing. Just because Feral is wrong doesn't automatically make the SWAT Kats right. This is something the new series should address.
I echo this sentiment, adding that I didn't like that Feral gets heat for something he is well within his rights to do so. Feral shouldn't have to deal with insubordination when he's the Commader for a reason. I also don't like that the SKs word is supposed to be taken as gospel and Feral and Enforcers can't add anything to back up their claims or offer a defense of them. So this really needs to change in the reboot.

I also don't think the Enforcers do bad policing. If they did, the city would be in total anarchy. So they must be doing something right 90% of the time.
Betaruga wrote:lso, you may notice that vigilante series are... pretty popular. And a vigilante series only works when the system itself is too inept to handle threats. In this case, just because what the SWAT Kats are doing is illegal, doesn't mean that what they're doing isn't right. Law doesn't equal morality, sad to say.
But the system is broken because the universe tunes up to 11 and twists itself into knots just to justify the SKs entire existence and render the Feral and the Enforcers totally incompetent. It's not like in Batman, where he was the only one with the skills and fortitude to take on Gotham's megavillians. Here, the SKs save the day because something Feral did, which would work just fine any other universe, suddenly doesn't work. Then everyone jumps down Feral's throat for something beyond his control.

I'm not here for Feral and the Enforcers continue being fodder and butt monkeys in the reboot. I see it happen and I'm out. For me at least.
The SKs are cool and I like them but I like the Enforcer side of things bit more and continuing to beat up on them so the SKs can gloat won't be very fun to watch.

So what would I like in the reboot? Fairness and balance.

Fairness: Be fair to all characters. Don't give me the SK origin story without giving Feral's point of view. If the SKs are the baddest toms to walk the planet, then show me that without the universe rendering others iinept just so they can save the day. If the Enforcers are representatives of a broken system, then show me the corruption, the laziness, anything to prove the point. Don't render Feral mute when he should have something to say in defense of himself or the Enforcers. And please let Feral have a snappy retort that renders the SKs speechless for once!

Balance: The Enforcers and the SKs should both have people in their respective corners. The SKs don't need everyone backing them while the Enforcers can only rely on themselves for support. If Callie's still on the SKs side, the someone just as powerful needs to be on the Enforcer side. The Enforcers should be able to thwart villains at least some of the time.

My personal wishes are that Feral gets a hard reboot as the non villainous antagonist. He really needs a 'O-ren Ishi addressing the Crime Council' moment...just taken down a few notches. He needs to separate from seemingly taking orders from Manx and City Hall because it did nothing for him. He'll follow the law, but he will command in his own way. If Feral is still the lynchpin in the origin story then show his view point...and don't force something to just justify the SK viewpoint of him. It needs to make sense. Let him make hard decisions that may or not be popular with the city at large.

I'd also swing Callie to neutral. She can support the SKs but she'd also back the Enforcers and being willing to read both the SKs and Feral the riot act if they need it.

A nice to have is seeing Feral, Callie and Manx having to deal with going to galas for whatever reason. I'd love to see Callie in a gown and Feral in the dress version of his uniform.
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Re: What would you like to see in the new series?

Post by Betaruga » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:50 am

I'm gonna toss out there that it just sounds like you don't really like the vigilante premise much, because yeah, when law enforcement butts heads with the heroes in a vigilante series... that's what happens. They become the butt of jokes. It's a common dynamic. You sound incredibly upset with the actual premise of the show, and I've always noticed this whenever you comment about the series? I'm going out on a limb to say this, but it almost sounds like it's a personal thing for you. Would it be cool to see the Enforcers made to be a bit more competent? Sure, but it's gonna be the SWAT Kats that steal the day--that's the show! :)
It's not like in Batman, where he was the only one with the skills and fortitude to take on Gotham's megavillians.
It's clear we disagree here, but... that dynamic is exactly the same in SWAT Kats. Almost every episode the SWAT Kats succeed where the Enforcers fail and were at a loss, and if the SWAT Kats hadn't rescued the city (or world) it would have been destroyed. Chance and Jake showed their promise of success against Dark Kat when he was the first mega-villain to show up--before the SWAT Kats were even created. Yes, new crazy things happened after they became SWAT Kats, but thank goodness they did, because otherwise, yeah. Megakat City would have become a crisp. Things change and the level of threats can advance over time, and the SK are the force that rose up to meet those increasing challenges.
I also don't think the Enforcers do bad policing. If they did, the city would be in total anarchy. So they must be doing something right 90% of the time.
They do bad policing against the biggest threats to the city because their methods are ineffective, which is where the SWAT Kats (and the show) become relevant. They leave the crime that the Enforcers can handle to the Enforcers. Of course the Enforcers are doing something right 90% of the time, but the show's not about non-megavillain levels of crime.
If the Enforcers are representatives of a broken system, then show me the corruption, the laziness, anything to prove the point.


Manx isn't exactly the model mayor, which is evident especially in season 1, there's the red tape thing, and the system isn't necessarily broken as it's ill-equipped to handle the mega villains. It's self evident in the show.
Don't render Feral mute when he should have something to say in defense of himself or the Enforcers. And please let Feral have a snappy retort that renders the SKs speechless for once!
Feral defends the Enforcers and tries to skewer the SWAT Kats all the time already. Though if Feral ever DID have a retort that would render the heroes speechless, that would be a cool moment of humility for them and I'd like to see that from a storytelling standpoint :)

As for your personal wishes about hard reboots and changing the dynamics for the characters... in a lot of ways it sounds like you just want a different series. The creators already said they were staying true to the original series, that this is a continuation with some minor tweaks, as well as explored character depth and world expansion, but not a reboot. If you don't get what you want I hope you'll still remain a fan of the series and enjoy the show nonetheless :)
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Re: What would you like to see in the new series?

Post by AkaneKitty » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:31 am

First of all, I do not want a different show. I just want one that at least fair to the Enforcers. I'm not saying that the SKs can't have jokes at the Enforcers expense, just that the Enforcers should be able to snap back as well (and I don't remember any Enforcer joking at the SKs expense.) I don't like one sidedness.

I still argue that the Enforcer ineffectiveness is still a cause of the universe going nope, can't have you do that. Take for example Feral and his plan to get rid of a Viper plant with chemicals. You would think that it would have some effect, but in this case it just makes the problem worse, and make it look like Feral was silly to do something like that. Nothing is presented during the episode shows that it wouldn't work. I wouldn't say that it should completely work, but it should at least slow it down. But the presentation makes the Enforcers look foolish.

Enforcer ineffectivness should have came from shoddy police work/laziness/corruption, not from being dumbed down so the SKs can make a save. Effective Enforcers make the SKs look cooler, IMO.

Anywhoo, I just want fairness and balance. The Enforcers gaining a bit of strength and maybe having someone powerful in their corner won't alter the show that much. Nor would showing their side of things, like Feral getting his own recollections of what happened to Jake and Chance.

My personal out is the Enforcers containing being butt monkeys without recourse, but I'd wish the series well. It's not entertaining or amusing to me anymore to have fun at the Enforcers expense. I guess I just don't agree with Jake and Chance issue with Feral in that regard. Until I see something that makes their insubordination make sense, I can't enjoy them poking fun at Enforcers when they helped caused the situation they were in.
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Re: What would you like to see in the new series?

Post by Mikazo » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:58 pm

One could discuss whether Dirty Harry was a good guy too. I guess it depends on one's perspective. :)

As for other things I would like to see, I think the military-industrial complex (i.e. Pumadyne) could play a bigger role, in a not-so-good way. They could do things like foment conflicts for the purpose of winning lucrative and unnecessary defense contracts.
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Re: What would you like to see in the new series?

Post by marklungo » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:16 pm

Wow! This discussion about vigilantism has certainly been thought-provoking.

Anyway, something else I'd like to see in the new show is: more Callie! And not only because she's my favorite character in the series. ;) Remember, she's at the center of a gaping hole in the SWAT Kats' backstory.

We know Callie supports T-Bone and Razor (and is willing to argue their merits with Feral), and she even has a communicator to summon them. But why does she support them so strongly? And how did she get that communicator? I assume that Callie and the SWAT Kats went through something major together that solidified their friendship. After all these years, I hope we finally learn the details.
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