The concept of SK Revolution

Talk about the most awesome show in the world, SWAT Kats: The Radical Squadron.
User avatar
marklungo
Fandom Veteran
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:20 am
Location: Berea, Ohio
x 1759
x 513
United States of America

Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by marklungo » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:26 pm

Kooshmeister wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:25 am
I definitely want more Enforcer love in Revolution. SergeantRoger
Agreed. Isn't it a plot point on Revolution that both the supervillians and the Enforcers have improved their technology? If not, it should be IMHO. It would also help justify the new hacker character's presence on the team--for once, it's the SWAT Kats who have to keep up with everybody else.
2 x
"Saturday is usually my morning to sleep in."

User avatar
zyna
Just Moved In
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:32 pm
Location: It's a lie
x 9
x 53
Ukraine

Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by zyna » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:09 am

Kooshmeister wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:25 am
I definitely want more Enforcer love in Revolution. SergeantRoger
Me too! I rather enjoy the Enforcers...for some odd reason. They're just kind of there, doing their thing. Wouldn't it be funny if there ended up being an underground splinter branch of the Enforcers. All corrupt and stuff, haha. Or there's some kind of conspiracy against their system or something. Sounds silly and a little unfitting in-universe honestly, but it does give me something to write about at the end of the day.
2 x
Image

Lombax
Just Moved In
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:58 pm
x 21
United States of America

Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Lombax » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:35 pm

I never felt like they were incompetent, just ineffective. It just seemed too repetitive. When I see the enforcers set up defenses, I already know they aren't going to accomplish anything. Their scenes seemed like padding. Maybe the point was to show how much of a threat they were up against, but when I already know that they are going to fail, it doesn't really have any effect.
Ty-Chou wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:16 pm
The Swat Kats don't need this "hacker" character. The show doesn't need it. T-bone and Razor's dynamic doesn't need a third character of any type. Want to bring in a hacker character for an episode and do like a... trapped/fighting in a VR world episode that shows like to do in attempt to make the show feel more "modern"? Go ahead. Don't add a third Swat Kat. It's not necessary. The funniest thing about this is that in the attempt to be more modern with a "hacker" character, they are introducing a plot point that is so grossly 90's in nature it made me cringe. The movie Hackers came out in 1995. It is now 2018 (almost 2019), you can now be a white hat hacker legally and professionally. This is an actual JOB you can have now. Hacking is not a new, modern thing anymore.
I forgot to add to this earlier. Yeah, the hacker thing is pretty dated. It worked back when computers were these magical devices and the average person didn't use them much, let alone understand how they worked. There aren't really "hackers" anymore. Professional "hackers" are "security engineers" or "penetration testers" or something along those lines. Independent individual "hackers" (aka security contractors) can exist, but the incentive is to report it and get a payout from the company. The ones who don't do that are usually not good enough to get paid and tend to be little more than a nuisance. The ones that do cause real problems are typically teams of people working for governments or companies. What the layman calls a hacker is usually nothing more than someone who got a hold of a device they were already logged in to.

But, besides all of that, I don't know how a "hacker" would benefit the SK anyways. Unless the hacker is meant to acquire tech from the government or Pumadyne or something, in which case it would be a one and done deal. If they want someone to build stuff... doesn't Jake already do that? Security people aren't very good at designing and building software. If they want custom software, they want a software engineer. Probably an embedded software engineer specifically.

Even if I suspend my disbelief and just accept that okay the hacker can just do anything technical, I know the character is just going to be OP. But even more important than that is -again- throwing off the already existing character dynamic. I just don't see a good outcome to this character. If this character really must be... well, I hope to be proven wrong. I hope it's not set in stone, though. If the core idea of this revival is to have a technical competition, there are much better ways to do it, imo.
1 x

User avatar
Kooshmeister
Fandom Veteran
Posts: 1579
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:26 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA
x 2156
x 1908
United States of America

Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Kooshmeister » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:18 am

Lombax wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:35 pm
Unless the hacker is meant to acquire tech from the government or Pumadyne or something, in which case it would be a one and done deal.
Which would also be outright stealing. The SWAT Kats already exist in a gray area, legally and morally; the writers get around the issue of how they acquire technology by having them salvage and refurbish stuff that's been junked for whatever reason, as opposed to directly taking it from someone. The one time I can recall them actually stealing (or attempting to) was in the alternate dimension, when they try to take the Mega-Detonator from Puma-Dyne, but not so that they can use it themselves, but so that their evil selves - and by extension Dark Kat - can't.

Having a "hacker" accomplice obtain technology and weaponry for their personal use, whether in the form of files containing blueprints or in the form of the actual physical device(s), puts them on the same level as the villains they fight, making them thieves as well as vigilantes, which is very hypocritical as almost all of their enemies have at one time or another had an evil scheme revolving around stealing something as part of a larger plan. Dark Kat steals stuff to make his bombs and death machines. Dr. Viper steals stuff to further his goal of extending his kingdom beyond the borders of the swamp. Hard Drive steals stuff - usually in a manner disturbingly similar to what you're suggesting this hacker would do for the SWAT Kats - either to sell it, to use it to steal more stuff, or just to go on a rampage with it. And the Metallikats are flat-out bank robbers. Point being, outright theft has always been a trait of the evil characters in the show, not the SWAT Kats, that one time in The Dark Side of the SWAT Kats I mentioned notwithstanding (not only was it in an alternate dimension, but they failed anyway).

A hacker character abetting the SWAT Kats illegally obtaining technology that doesn't belong to her with the one difference being that she and the SWAT Kats intend to use it to defend defend Megakat City rather than to attack it would still make the SWAT Kats accomplices to theft, muddying waters that were already pretty muddy to begin with in regard to the legality and morality of what the SWAT Kats do. What next? Will they (building on the Dark Side of the SWAT Kats "steal it to keep it away from the villains" scenario) start stealing whatever new high-tech jet or tank Puma-Dyne comes out with for the Enforcers, for fear of it falling into the hands of the villains? Will they do this for all new technology that comes out, because it might be used for evil? Who are they to decide this?

This would turn the show into a "good thieves vs. evil thieves" type scenario, and maybe this is what the Tremblays are going for. Films, shows and games with thieves as the protagonists have always been popular, and there have been several where the plot did revolve around stealing something before the bad guys could. And, well, I can see that maybe being used for an episode or two for a change of pace, again, as in Dark Side of the SWAT Kats with them trying to get the Mega-Detonator, but as a basis for the whole show, and, more importantly, the basis for how they get their tech and weapons, it just doesn't fly with me. It's not what SWAT Kats (the show or the characters) is.

They're not thieves. They catch thieves.

So, please, Christian, Yvon, if you're reading this, don't make their new team member a hacker. Make her a regular computer expert or an inventor or something. And don't have the SWAT Kats benefit from technology and weapons they've stolen. They're already criminals by being vigilantes with a bad habit of doing more damage than their enemies, getting away with it because they get the job done and because (in the audience's eyes) they're just so gosh-darn lovable. Don't make them break any more laws than they already have to. RazPleading

IMO, the hacker, rather that somehow stumbling across their hideout (what would such a still computer expert be doing in a junkyard, anyway?), have her be someone the SWAT Kats catch while she's in the employ of another villain. Say, Dark Kat. Or perhaps Dr. Viper needed someone with her kind of technological expertise for his latest caper, as things go more high-tech and he, a biochemist, knows little about computers and machines beyond the basics. Or maybe she's under the thumb of Hard Drive who is trying to mold her into his protégé and she wants out. Upon being caught, she offers to help the SWAT Kats defeat whoever she's working for, provided they let her go and don't tell the Enforcers about her. Seeing that she's genuine, and wanting to save her from a life of crime while she's still young, they do so, with the episode ending with T-Bone, ever the doubter, wondering if they did the right thing, and there being some question about whether she really was genuine, or just selling her boss out to get off/get ahead.

Only to bring her back later and reveal, hey, she was actually telling the truth about wanting out, has turned her life around, and approaches the SWAT Kats unexpectedly, offering to work for them in gratitude. Razor is interested, but T-Bone being T-Bone reacts to her the way he reacted to Cybertron: Get lost.

"Forget it. Go join the Enforcers."

"I tried," she explains. "They've already got Hard Drive in an ankle monitor as the special adviser to their cyber crimes division."

"What--?" asks Razor, dumbfounded. He'd been expecting that the hacker girl had been turned away from the Enforcers because of her rap sheet. "How did that happen?"

"Special deal he made with Commander Feral and the D.A.," she explains. "So not only did he take a job I wanted, but even if I agreed to work under him I'd be taking a huge risk. I just know he's playing the poor Enforcers for fools and is planning on screwing them over somehow."

"That's not easy to do," grumps T-Bone.

Continuing as if he hadn't spoken, the hacker said, "Before you found me helping Dr. Viper, I used to work for Hard Drive. He knows me. Taught me a lot of what I know. The Enforcers don't know any of that. He could blackmail me into helping him with whatever he's planning by threatening to expose me to Feral. I don't wanna go to jail... but I don't wanna go back to the kind of life you guys saved me from. That's why I can't go to the Enforcers, at least not while Hard Drive is working there. So please... let me help you in return for helping me."
1 x
R.I.P. Gary Owens (1936-2015)

User avatar
Tarnish
Resident
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:19 am
x 1
x 76
Hungary

Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Tarnish » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:54 am

Kooshmeister wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:18 am
They're already criminals by being vigilantes with a bad habit of doing more damage than their enemies, getting away with it because they get the job done and because (in the audience's eyes) they're just so gosh-darn lovable.
Isn't that part of every superhero movie or TV show? XD

I mean I just watched the Superman: The Animated Series, Justice League TV Series, Superman: Doomsday recently and...well, compared to Superman and the like, the SWAT Kats are harmless little kittens when it comes to destruction, lol. How often does Superman level a big chunk of Metropolis just to defeat one bad guy?
1 x

User avatar
Kooshmeister
Fandom Veteran
Posts: 1579
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:26 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA
x 2156
x 1908
United States of America

Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Kooshmeister » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:19 am

My larger point that they're already criminals by dint of being vigilantes unsanctioned by the city still stands. Some grumblings from the sidelines aside, Superman and the Justice League are basically official heroes endorsed by various public figures and law enforcement. The SWAT Kats are not. Manx has never publicly thanked or honored them, his promises of parades and "SWAT Kat Day" amounting to nothing, and they're merely tolerated by the Enforcers on the best of days. FeralIcon

Their status as vigilantes is a big source of friction between them and other characters in the show, something glossed over in other stories about heroic vigilantes a lot of the time. Even Batman works better with the police than the SWAT Kats do with the Enforcers. In Batman: The Animated Series, it seems like the writers forget he's a vigilante who operates outside the law half the time, and, even when they remember, it seems the thoroughly despicable Harvey Bullock is the lone voice on the police force who doesn't like Batman. Everyone else, from Gordon on down, seems to like him.

But the one thing keeping them from being the same as the villains they fight, beyond simple intent, is that taking the law into their own hands is the only crime they commit (property damage aside). Obtaining tech and weaponry by stealing it themselves or having it stolen for them by another character would put them on the same level as scumbags like Hard Drive, no matter how you slice it. FeralStopSign
1 x
R.I.P. Gary Owens (1936-2015)

User avatar
Tarnish
Resident
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:19 am
x 1
x 76
Hungary

Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Tarnish » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:37 am

Kooshmeister wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:19 am
My larger point that they're already criminals by dint of being vigilantes unsanctioned by the city still stands. Some grumblings from the sidelines aside, Superman and the Justice League are basically official heroes endorsed by various public figures and law enforcement. The SWAT Kats are not. Manx has never publicly thanked or honored them, his promises of parades and "SWAT Kat Day" amounting to nothing, and they're merely tolerated by the Enforcers on the best of days. FeralIcon

Their status as vigilantes is a big source of friction between them and other characters in the show, something glossed over in other stories about heroic vigilantes a lot of the time. Even Batman works better with the police than the SWAT Kats do with the Enforcers. In Batman: The Animated Series, it seems like the writers forget he's a vigilante who operates outside the law half the time, and, even when they remember, it seems the thoroughly despicable Harvey Bullock is the lone voice on the police force who doesn't like Batman. Everyone else, from Gordon on down, seems to like him.

But the one thing keeping them from being the same as the villains they fight, beyond simple intent, is that taking the law into their own hands is the only crime they commit (property damage aside). Obtaining tech and weaponry by stealing it themselves or having it stolen for them by another character would put them on the same level as scumbags like Hard Drive, no matter how you slice it. FeralStopSign
I get that, what I was trying to imply is that I think you were exaggerating a bit by saying they do more damage than their enemies. Most of the time they operate pretty damn efficiently, trying to do damage only to the bad guys.
1 x

User avatar
Kooshmeister
Fandom Veteran
Posts: 1579
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:26 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA
x 2156
x 1908
United States of America

Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Kooshmeister » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:02 am

Of course I was exaggerating. It's called hyperbole. JakeStopIcon
2 x
R.I.P. Gary Owens (1936-2015)

User avatar
Agracite
Resident
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:48 am
x 91
x 159
Contact:
United States of America

Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Agracite » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:10 am

FeralStopSign Lets just forget the SWAT Kats revival altogether and go with an Enforcers spin off instead.
1 x
"My momma musta put agracite in my cereal when I was a kitten."

https://agraciteinmycereal.tumblr.com/

User avatar
Cait
Challenge Champion
Challenge Champion
Posts: 1029
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:11 pm
Location: Somewhere in Megakat City...
x 2342
x 1332
Contact:
Spain

Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Cait » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:30 am

Agracite wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:10 am
FeralStopSign Lets just forget the SWAT Kats revival altogether and go with an Enforcers spin off instead.
You made the duo cry... KittyEyesChanceIcon RazSad
1 x
------------------------
NERO (X3)
------------------------
ImageFind me on: DeviantArt / FurAffinity / Twitter
ImageSK smilies request list: https://www.dropbox.com/s/exp9slsdtz8b9 ... t.txt?dl=0

Post Reply