LGBT characters in Swat Kats

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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Post by Mikazo » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:08 pm

Hey, Gargoyles had a gay character in it, didn't it? Lexington. Seems other cartoons have tried this too. (They could have gone farther even. How about Brooklyn?... ah, never mind!)
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Post by marklungo » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:52 pm

Mikazo wrote:Hey, Gargoyles had a gay character in it, didn't it? Lexington. Seems other cartoons have tried this too. (They could have gone farther even. How about Brooklyn?... ah, never mind!)
Yes, Lexington was confirmed to be gay... in comics and creator interviews released years after the series was canceled. There have been other childrens' cartoons that have dropped hints about the sexuality of certain characters, but as for openly LGBT characters in family-friendly media, the only two I can think of are Mitch Downe from Paranorman and LeFou from the live action Beauty and the Beast.

This brings up the question: If we actually get a gay character in Revolution, how open do we want that character to be? How much (or little) are we willing to settle for?
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Post by MoDaD » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:12 pm

There were several characters in the DCAU who fell under this banner, hero and villain alike. One of the more memorable protagonist characters I recall is Maggie Sawyer of the MCU (Superman: The Animated Series), who had a poignant hospital scene that pretty clearly showed who her relationship was with, and that was in the mid 90s.
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Post by Kooshmeister » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:40 am

marklungo wrote:This brings up the question: If we actually get a gay character in Revolution, how open do we want that character to be? How much (or little) are we willing to settle for?
Just stating they're gay will be fine with me.
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Post by marklungo » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:09 am

MoDaD wrote:There were several characters in the DCAU who fell under this banner, hero and villain alike. One of the more memorable protagonist characters I recall is Maggie Sawyer of the MCU (Superman: The Animated Series), who had a poignant hospital scene that pretty clearly showed who her relationship was with, and that was in the mid 90s.
Even then, the creators were careful not to use the "L" word, although they implied as much as the network would let them get away with.
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Post by Tarnish » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:10 am

Sorry my second post on this site will be sort of a rant, but that's just what this topic brings out of me..I'm probably gonna get a lot of flak for my opinion on this or my post will just get deleted altogether (or even get me banned, if so, so be it), but I just need to vent my thoughts on this..

I'm kinda shocked and to be honest, disgusted this topic has been brought up. Is this just how todays world operates? That sexual orientation has to be brought into absolutely everything?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the illusion that SWAT Kats was a cartoon show, mainly intended for children..Why on earth does various sexual orientations have to be actively brought up and represented in SWAT Kats, or any cartoon for that matter? What does that exactly add to the series, other than make certain people feel accomplished that "Oh, there's diversity in the cartoon, that's very important!". I might be old-school in my thinking but I think the last thing a child should be wondering about is "Gee, I wonder if various sexual orientations are represented in my favorite cartoon?".

Being gay doesn't make anybody special, it isn't a good thing by itself that has to be highlighted and showcased. Gays can still be awful people, so making a "positive LGBT representation" wouldn't suddenly make every gay person suddenly something to look up to and admire. Whereas showing positive character traits (heroism, bravery, self-sacrifice, honesty, persistence, loyalty, etc.), at least in my opinion, is far more important to highlight and showcase, because those are without question positive things that are worth admiring. Character traits, motivation, goals are what makes a character interesting and likeable...not sexual orientation..

To me, this whole thing just feels like nowadays there's a need to fill in checkboxes.."Well we have heterosexuals, better add in gays as well..". If so, why stop there? If gays are worth representing, why aren't bisexuals? Or trans people? Or gender fluid/non-binary people? What about people who identify as Enforcer choppers? Disabled people? Mentally handicapped people? Are they not worth representing?

Heck, why stop at sexual orientation? What about representing the various religions? Are they not worth representing either? If you start with gays, might as well go all the way and fill all those checkboxes...

SWAT Kats is a cartoon...it's a form of entertainment, to entertain people and get their thoughts off of real world problems for 22 or whatever minutes...it's not (or in my opinion shouldn't be) a tool to represent minorities and whatnot from the real world.
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Post by marklungo » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:40 am

Tarnish wrote:I'm kinda shocked and to be honest, disgusted this topic has been brought up. Is this just how todays world operates? That sexual orientation has to be brought into absolutely everything?
Well, fandom in general is full of people who like to speculate about the relationships of their favorite characters. In SWAT Kats' case, the show has several LGBT fans, some of whom have fantasized about T-Bone and Razor's already close relationship becoming something more. It's not surprising that they would want to see someone like themselves in one of their favorite series.
Tarnish wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the illusion that SWAT Kats was a cartoon show, mainly intended for children..Why on earth does various sexual orientations have to be actively brought up and represented in SWAT Kats, or any cartoon for that matter? What does that exactly add to the series, other than make certain people feel accomplished that "Oh, there's diversity in the cartoon, that's very important!". I might be old-school in my thinking but I think the last thing a child should be wondering about is "Gee, I wonder if various sexual orientations are represented in my favorite cartoon?".
Remember in the late 60s and 70s when a lot of shows, including cartoons, added African-American and other non-white characters because they hadn't been adequately represented in media before? The same principle is at work here. And consider SWAT Kats' extensive cast of strong female characters, both good and evil; it was something of a pioneer for action/adventure cartoons in that regard.
Tarnish wrote:Being gay doesn't make anybody special,
Actually, it kind of does, since gays are a significant minority.
Tarnish wrote:it isn't a good thing by itself that has to be highlighted and showcased. Gays can still be awful people, so making a "positive LGBT representation" wouldn't suddenly make every gay person suddenly something to look up to and admire.
Every group, like every individual, has its share of good and bad. The problem is that LGBT people, like other minorities, have been either ignored or negatively stereotyped in the media until recently, which is why many fans want to balance the scales.
Tarnish wrote:Whereas showing positive character traits (heroism, bravery, self-sacrifice, honesty, persistence, loyalty, etc.), at least in my opinion, is far more important to highlight and showcase, because those are without question positive things that are worth admiring. Character traits, motivation, goals are what makes a character interesting and likeable...not sexual orientation.
In an ideal world, I wouldn't have much of a problem with this statement. But in the real world, LGBT people are killed and victimized just for being LGBT. And for far too long, gays (like other minorities) have been denied the chance to be heroes in fiction, so now both fans and pros want to make up for that.
Tarnish wrote:To me, this whole thing just feels like nowadays there's a need to fill in checkboxes.."Well we have heterosexuals, better add in gays as well..". If so, why stop there? If gays are worth representing, why aren't bisexuals? Or trans people? Or gender fluid/non-binary people? What about people who identify as Enforcer choppers? Disabled people? Mentally handicapped people? Are they not worth representing?
I have no problem with any of those groups appearing in SWAT Kats. Yes, that includes "people who identify as Enforcer choppers". Why not do a story about an Enforcer vehicle with artificial intelligence? We've already had Zed...
Tarnish wrote:Heck, why stop at sexual orientation? What about representing the various religions? Are they not worth representing either? If you start with gays, might as well go all the way and fill all those checkboxes...
Religion in cartoons is a whole different issue. If you want to bring it up, I would suggest starting a new topic.
Tarnish wrote:SWAT Kats is a cartoon...it's a form of entertainment, to entertain people and get their thoughts off of real world problems for 22 or whatever minutes...it's not (or in my opinion shouldn't be) a tool to represent minorities and whatnot from the real world.
To me, a show that's pure escapism, that doesn't engage the real world in any way, just wouldn't be that interesting. (It might not even be possible.) SWAT Kats has already commented on issues such as vigilante justice, the (mis)uses of science and technology, and how corrupt prison wardens and mine owners suck and deserve to die. And then there's the satirical ending of "Enter the Madkat", where Lenny Ringtail uses his rampage to get the fame and fortune he's always sought. Of course, no one wants the show to become preachy, but if it can help make the world a better place while still being fun and entertaining, then that's a very good thing.
Last edited by marklungo on Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Post by Tarnish » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:45 am

So pretty much "diversiry for diversity sake" and the usual SJW propaganda...Gotcha.
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Post by Poecat » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:17 am

marklungo wrote:This brings up the question: If we actually get a gay character in Revolution, how open do we want that character to be? How much (or little) are we willing to settle for?
Tarnish wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the illusion that SWAT Kats was a cartoon show, mainly intended for children..Why on earth does various sexual orientations have to be actively brought up and represented in SWAT Kats, or any cartoon for that matter? What does that exactly add to the series, other than make certain people feel accomplished that "Oh, there's diversity in the cartoon, that's very important!". I might be old-school in my thinking but I think the last thing a child should be wondering about is "Gee, I wonder if various sexual orientations are represented in my favorite cartoon?".
In my own opinion... If a character were created for the SK Revolution to represent the LBGT group. I feel that during the show, hinting to a character's orientation would be fine. I do not feel that stating it in the show should be done. If the creators wish to state that the character is to support the LBGT community, then they should in an article/video what have you.

Why? It is the age group that will be watching this show. This IS a children's show, while there may be different age groups watching this show. There should be care taken in consideration that some kids are just not thinking sexually yet. Nor questioning what their orientation is. If hints in the show are given about a characters orientation, then the older children that are thinking sexually, will in fact pick up on that.

I have to say also. In show... The majority of the show involves action/heroes/saving the day.... there are touches of romance. But that is as far as it goes. I think if the creators got even deeper with coupling and showing off relationships, then the show becomes something else. Of course these are only my opinions. In which you are free to disagree or agree.
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Re: LGBT characters in Swat Kats

Post by Kanogetz » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:34 am

Poecat wrote: In my own opinion... If a character were created for the SK Revolution to represent the LBGT group. I feel that during the show, hinting to a character's orientation would be fine. I do not feel that stating in the show should be done. If the creators wish to state that the character is to support the LBGT community, then they should in an article/video what have you.

Why? It is the age group that will be watching this show. This IS a children's show, while there may be different age groups watching this show. There should be care taken in consideration that some kids are just not thinking sexually yet. Nor questioning what their orientation is. If hints in the show are given about a characters orientation, then the older children that are thinking sexually, will in fact pick up on that.

I have to say also. In show... The majority of the show involves action/heroes/saving the day.... there are touches of romance. But that is as far as it goes. I think if the creators got even deeper with coupling and showing off relationships, then the show becomes something else. Of course these are only my opinions. In which you are free to disagree or agree.
It's always quite a "thorny" discussion when it comes to LGBT questions regarding certain shows. Honestly, I understand and I don't mind it at all but I truly believe that the middle-of-the-road solution would be the best. Subtle hinting would be a smarter way to do it and I totally agree with Poecat with this one.
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