The concept of SK Revolution

Talk about the most awesome show in the world, SWAT Kats: The Radical Squadron.
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Kooshmeister
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Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Kooshmeister » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:08 pm

Ty-Chou wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:16 pm
He is still hung up on Cry Turmoil and how he couldn't do the story he wanted about Feral. But there are many fans (myself included) that are happy he did not get his way.
I've always said the SWAT Kats are nothing but lawless v--

...I mean I have often said that Buzz Potamkin, the one who torpedoed that idea (as well as the original ending for When Strikes Mutilor), is a good example of someone doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. His reason for making Falk change it from Feral to T-Bone was asinine and short-sighted (he believed only the SWAT Kats themselves should ever be a major focus), but it pretty much saved Feral from what could've been some pretty awful character assassination.

The fact Falk by his own admission almost quit the show over this (and the change to When Strikes Mutilor), only remaining to do Unlikely Alloys after (as he claims) being specifically asked to by either Davis Doi or Robert Alvarez (I forget which), is odd as well and makes him seem a little immature. I know, I'm one to talk, given some of my own past behavior here and elsewhere, but, eh, it takes one to know one. Falk seems to have matured a lot since then, though, and although he still seems to want to put Feral through the wringer for whatever reason, he at least seems to acknowledge, however tacitly, that it would take a lot more than simply being fired to make everyone's favorite big-chinned Enforcer commander turn evil.

And what's even stranger is that the character development Falk seemed (seems?) so adamant about undoing - that for all his negative qualities, Feral is, at the end of the day, a good guy with a line he refuses to cross - was apparently Falk's addition to Metal Urgency, and an idea he is/was quite proud of (and rightly so), meaning he attempted to undo his own work! I don't get it. When I put the question to him, in, I admit, a leading way, he seemed to agree that his main intent was seeing just how far he could push Feral because he thinks it would interesting, which is fine and all, I guess, but the way he was going to go about it - he gets fired, then seduced by a pretty woman - seemed simplistic.

One could make the same argument about Feral falling for Katrina in Succubus!, but, there, not only is Katrina supernatural in nature, with some implication that she's got some hold over him ("I don't know what spell she's put over you," Felina says), but unlike Turmoil, who he knows is evil when he accepts her offer, Feral is not aware that Katrina is the serial killer plaguing the city when he first meets and falls in love with her, and his affection for her blinds him to the evidence that she's evil and makes him ignore Felina. And he isn't turning evil, just falling for a woman he doesn't know/can't admit is evil, which isn't the same as knowingly joining forces with a woman who doesn't hide her evil intentions.

So, TLDR version:

Feral falling for Turmoil = Out of character because he knows she's bad. Feral falling for Katrina = In character (or at least within the realm of possibility) because he isn't aware she's bad - and she possibly put a love spell or something on him too.

Do we know, though, that this hacker (what's her name, anyway?) is Falk's idea, or something the Tremblays are pushing? How involved is Falk in developing Revolution's story? This is my main issue with it, I guess; that we know so little because everyone involved is playing it so close to the vest for some reason and revealing only little snippets at a time. I don't want spoilers for actual episode plots and story arcs, but some information on who the new characters are going to be and where the original ones are after X amount of time besides "the SWAT Kats are behind the times and need help from a young hacker character" and some vague mumblings about Chance's disappeared test pilot dad Cougar would be nice.
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Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Mikazo » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:49 pm

I am not sold on the idea of a hacker character. The reason being that the Swat Kats only lasted two seasons, and already shoving a new character in there to help them keep up with tech advances is woefully premature.

I also just discovered I like saying "woefully premature."

Anyway though, there is plenty that can still be accomplished without the use of this character. Sometimes less really is more.

However, at some point the show does need to contend with the fact that tech is always advancing and evolving and the SK's have to keep up. It makes you wonder how the Swat Kats really can stay competitive in the long run. The Enforcers probably have a huge R&D budget and are able to recruit a lot of talent, so they really should have an edge over the Swat Kats in this department. Not only that but the bad guys are continually evolving too.

Perhaps one of the main villains in the show could be a rogue AI? This fits very well with the technological themes present in the show and would be a very difficult enemy to fight.
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Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Kooshmeister » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:02 pm

Technically we had a rogue AI already with Zed.
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Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Mikazo » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:13 pm

Kooshmeister wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:02 pm
Technically we had a rogue AI already with Zed.
That's true, except I'm thinking about something that would exist within city's computer infrastructure. Maybe whatever Internet equivalent they have.

Perhaps Hard Drive creates it for some reason, and after he unleashes it, later realizes he has made a huge mistake. Then he switches sides, playing some role in trying to stop it.
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Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Kooshmeister » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:42 pm

I think Unlikely Alloys did a pretty unique take on the subject by allowing Zed to move around with a physical body as opposed to being confined to one location like most rogue AI in fiction, making him pretty similar to Ultron. It sounds like you want something more akin to what we got in Colossus: The Forbin Project or WarGames, or perhaps Komplex from Bucky O'Hare, although it did eventually upload itself into a robotic body in the series finale. (I'd mention the Terminator series, but for all its notoriety, Skynet is less of a character than a plot device, and doesn't actually physically show up at all in the first two films.)

A few fans have this notion of Zed's consciousness surviving the destruction of the micro-brain repair globe and moving on to other machines or even surviving in Greenbox's mind somehow, though. Maybe he'd eventually find his way into the Internet.
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Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Lombax » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:56 pm

I'm okay with seeing the SK having to compete technologically. It seems like they should be at a fairly even level since their tech comes from the government, though. They just repurpose it. I think it would be more interesting to establish how they build stuff. Like going from finding something new in the salvage yard, Razor thinking up ways he could use it, and then actually going and building it. Or maybe collecting parts and building something to deal with a specific threat that calls for it as needed so the audience doesn't get the sense of 'well it's a good thing he just happens to have that missile.' Then maybe have them use special missiles conservatively because there's no guarantee that they'll have the scrap parts to make another one. I'm a fan of putting limits on things like this. It makes it more special when they do use something cool, and it sort of forces the writers to come up with more grounded, believable, and all around more satisfying solutions to stuff.

I'm also for seeing them skirt the law a bit by dealing with, say, smugglers or something. They are vigilantes who operate in a gray area, afterall. I want to see morally gray decisions being made to emphasize that fact. It would be good character development to then have to deal with the potential consequences.

On a semi-related note, I reeeeaaallly want to see the enforcers actually be useful. I think seeing the enforces actually do some damage and creating an opening of some sort for the SK would be a lot more interesting than having them be ineffective and only the SK can do anything. Maybe play up the corruption angle a bit and have some questionable orders come down that the SK of course don't have to abide by. Making them so useless just makes me wonder how the city survived up to the point before the SK came to be.
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Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by marklungo » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:16 pm

Kooshmeister wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:08 pm
The fact Falk by his own admission almost quit the show over this (and the change to When Strikes Mutilor), only remaining to do Unlikely Alloys after (as he claims) being specifically asked to by either Davis Doi or Robert Alvarez (I forget which), is odd as well and makes him seem a little immature.
IIRC, Falk didn't say he would quit SWAT Kats altogether. Although he was planning to stop writing for the show, he would have remained on the art crew. And as for this being "odd" or "immature", I can't blame him for not wanting to deal with a clueless executive who seemed determined to stifle his creativity, for what everyone agrees are pretty bad reasons.
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Re: The concept of SK Revolution

Post by Kooshmeister » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:11 am

Lombax wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:56 pm
On a semi-related note, I reeeeaaallly want to see the enforcers actually be useful. I think seeing the enforces actually do some damage and creating an opening of some sort for the SK would be a lot more interesting than having them be ineffective and only the SK can do anything. Maybe play up the corruption angle a bit and have some questionable orders come down that the SK of course don't have to abide by. Making them so useless just makes me wonder how the city survived up to the point before the SK came to be.
There's another problem with having the Enforcers suck so much. Making the Enforcers so lame in comparison doesn't make the SWAT Kats look awesome, quite the opposite; if the Enforcers suck so badly, then anyone can outperform them, and this risks making the SWAT Kats come off as merely competent as opposed to truly impressive.

They have, however, had a few minor victories and instances that show their competence and effectiveness:

1. Burge and King destroy the skeletons in The Pastmaster Always Rings Twice. Complete with a quip! In fact, this means the first thing we ever see any Enforcers do is actually not suck outright.
2. In the same episode, the Enforcers bring down the Megasaurus rex with gas grenades pretty easily, denying the Pastmaster his biggest dinosaur.
3. It's Feral and his pilot, not the SWAT Kats, who rescue Callie and Manx in The Giant Bacteria.
4. There's also the odd moment in that episode where the final monster gets distracted by Feral's chopper. Intentionally or not, Feral probably saved Callie from being eaten in that instant.*
5. Feral kills a few of the drones in The Ci-Kat-A, if memory serves. I seem to remember him shooting them out of the air with his chopper's guns.
6. In the same episode, it's the Enforcers (principally Feral) who destroy the alien nest. Feral's bug spray idea fails, but the flamethrowers work excellently. Which indirectly causes the Ci-Kat-A queen's death; because the Enforcers torched the penthouse, it breaks loose and falls on her. This ends up saving Manx, Mr. Young and their chauffeur (even if it also slimes them).
7. Razor defeated Mac and Molly by crashing Prowler into Goliath in Metal Urgency, yes, but it's Feral who deals the finishing blow using the neural neutralizer (after awesomely turning down their offer).
8. Feral pretty much saves the day at the end of Katastrophe by sneaking into the factory and turning off the forcefield bubble, and also prevents Dr. Viper from escaping.
9. Felina saves Callie from the mutated trees in Mutation City. Twice. First by pulling her up with the rescue ladder and then by shooting the tree branch trying to get her.
10. In the same episode, Felina is the one who fires the knockout gas that defeats the giant frog.
11. It's also Enforcer scientist Dr. Konway who figures out what's going on and what they need to do to fix it.
12. Like her uncle before her, Felina saves the day at the end of When Strikes Mutilor when she crashes the Marauder into the mothership's bridge, preventing Mutilor from killing the SWAT Kats. If not for her, T-Bone and Razor would've died. She also got that Marauder by shooting it down all by herself.
13. The SWAT Kats take out Chopshop's chopper, but it's Feral who actually defeats him by shooting the laser pistol out of his hand.
14. Feral gets that awesome moment where he fires from a speeding car and hits a mummy's visor in The Deadly Pyramid.
15. While probably not canon because the episode was never finished, it's Felina, not the SWAT Kats, who gets the killing blow against the giant scarab at the end of The Doctors of Doom (this was likely Leopold letting her get revenge after what was done to her new partner).

More instances like this would go a long way to showing that they are effective peacekeepers in Megakat City.

*And, assuming Revolution reveals Dr. Zyme survived, Feral distracting the bacteria monster saved him too, as slim of a chance as that might be (come on, Revolution, don't let me down!).
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